Natural Born Traders or The Not-So-Scary 8th House in Your Chart

It’s no secret that the 8th house has got a bad rep among the learners and practitioners of astrology. Associated with death and power struggles, crises, fears, deeply hidden issues – you name it. Occasionally you can come across an article trying to lighten the gloomy mood  setting of this area of the natal chart and focusing on the connection with transformation, hidden powers, inner strength and so on. Usually those articles come from the astrologers following the evolutionary approach. Now, there is nothing wrong with that as I myself incorporate this approach… when it is appropriate, i.e. when the client is interested in the spiritual potential of their chart.

However, most of the time people are interested in practical and everyday matters. Like, will they have a relationship with the person of interest or how to earn more money. And here we come to another meaning of the 8th house which is almost everywhere mentioned in passing, tossed in with the other “oh-so-scary” meanings. The meaning is “other people’s money” which comes as a consequence of the ‘turning of the chart’ technique: you are the 1st house and your money is the 2nd house. Other people are the 7th house and the 2nd from the 7th (= the 8th) is their money. Occasionally ‘other people’s money’ is explained as ‘loans and grants’ and then there is always ‘taxes’… None of them seem appealing because one has to be rather perverted to enjoy paying taxes and loans are strongly associated with debt and handing over your hard-earned money to the bank to pay the interest on these loans as well.

One possible positive outcome of the 8th house signifying someone else’s money is when it is taken to signify your spouse’s money and this way a well placed 8th house significators with positive connections to your 2nd house could be an indicator of marrying someone who is well-off. But this is where the common  misconception about another house creeps in: the 7th house is more often than not assigned to “the partner” meaning “romantic partner” or “spouse” (probably because of the high volume of marriage and relationships requests in consultations). However, astrologers who work a lot with business ventures know this house also as the house of business partners, competitors or even open enemies, e.g. in court situations. In horaries, the 7th house is the house of any person who does not fit the categories described by the other people-related houses (3rd – siblings and neighbours, 4th – parents, 5th – children, etc).  

In other words, if you go out into the central square or plaza of your city or town and look around  – provided the lockdown is over – you’ll see a bunch of people who are “other people” and thus are described by the 7th house. If you go online and start interacting with someone you have never met in real life – they are also 7th house, not the 11th house (as you might think because they are labeled as “friends” on FB). If you come to a stock exchange in New York, London or Shanghai – you will see a whole lot of 7th housers shuffling around large chunks of what is definitely described by the 8th house – “other people’s money”.

In business astrology the 8th house is not only loans or debts. It is connected with investments, financial and banking sphere, venture capitals and so on. The 8th house is often prominent in the charts of people who succeed in these areas as you shall see below. I will focus mainly on traders but before we get to the Natal charts, let me outline the factors we need to look at:

  1. The 2nd house – the house of your own money and source of income
  2. The 5th house – the house connected with risk (e.g. gambling, sport betting) because trading, no matter how good your strategy is, still remains in the category of risky ways of making money
  3. The 8th house – the house of other people’s money, the money that other people put into the market
  4. The 11th house – the least important but, nevertheless, relevant being the 5th from the 7th (other people’s risks) as well as the house of larger groups of people (as in “all the people trading on the stock exchange”)
  5. In addition to the houses, there are some planets which are natural significators for the profession: Mercury, of course, as the planet of trade and exchange and also Pluto, as the planet strongly connected with  interest (percentage) and the ability to get profits from cash flow, trade turnover, etc.
  6. Part of Fortune (POF) and its dispositor also presents some interest, although, similarly to the 11th house it’s more of an additional factor rather than the main one.

I will start with the guy whose name is familiar even to those who can’t explain the difference between a share and a bond without googling it. 

Warren Edward Buffett, an investor and business tycoon, born 30th August 1930 at 15:00 in Omaha, Nebraska (birth data from Astro-Databank). See the chart below:

In evaluating the earning potential of the individual, their financial standing in life in general we turn to the 2nd house in Aquarius and its ruler Uranus in Aries near the IC. My personal reaction is just ‘“meh” – I mean, this isn’t the superstar of the chart for sure. Not strong by the sign, retrograde, only harsh aspects… Maybe we’ll have more luck with the vice-ruler of the 2nd house – Saturn? Indeed, here it’s starting to pick up a little. Saturn is strong in its own sign and in the first house and, despite being retrograde and in a T-square with Mars and Mercury, it also has a couple of nice tight trines from the Sun and Neptune in none other than the 8th house! Much better. 

Incidentally, the Sun also rules his 8th house so that’s our first connection of houses 2-8. Now, Neptune closely conjunct Warren’s Sun could be the reason for his great intuition and vision  in making financial decisions but how come this Sun-Neptune conjunction is not about creative imagination and intuition in other spheres of life, say, writing? Or acting? With that Venus and Libra on the MC surely it is one of things that comes to mind as a career possibility.

Well, his POF in Pisces 3rd house is ruled by that very Neptune in the 8th hinting that his fortunes would be made in areas of life that are described by the 8th house. Venus, being one of the strongest planets in the chart and the significator of career and highest achievement (MC), also rules the 5th house which is another tick on our checklist. In addition, Venus has only one aspect – with Pluto (percentage), the ruler of the 11th house (other people’s risk). The 2nd house ruler is also connected with Pluto, ruler of the 11th. We have come full circle. With Mercury highlighted here as the apex of the T-square and thus being the focal point of the energy outpouring we have a great example of how the 8th house is playing out nicely and constructively in this person’s chart.

Let’s look at another trader who’s well known in the financial circles: W. D. Gunn. The opening paragraph of the Wikipedia article describes him as “a finance trader who developed the technical analysis methods like the Gann angles and the Master Charts……forecasting methods are purportedly based on geometry, astronomy and astrology, and ancient mathematics.” Yup, you read it right – astrology.

The father of astro-trading was born June 6, 1878 at 10:34 in Lufkin, Texas (source Astro-Databank). See the chart below.

Ok, so here the eye goes immediately to that Pluto smack at the top of the chart, in a partile conjunction with MC. Strong Pluto – check. It also rules POF – two birds with one stone! Nice.

With Leo ASC he has both 2nd and 11th houses ruled by Mercury which is also not far from Pluto and the MC in the 9th house shifting the focus on the studying, researching and leaving the serious legacy in the form of knowledge, methods and systems. I’ll just take a minute to appreciate Uranus on the ASC and his connection with astrology (as something unconventional). I mean, even the Wiki article has a few paragraphs about his trading techniques with the use of planetary configurations! Yay for astrology!

His 5th house ruler Jupiter is not as pumped – in Aquarius in the 6th and retrograde, but nevertheless connected by an aspect of square to Neptune which rules the 8th. His chart is quite rich on squares, by the way, which shows it must have been a bumpy road to success but any connection is better than no connection at all.

The final touch here would be a sextile (at last – a harmonious aspect!) from Mars in the 11th to Mercury, which is a connection of houses 2-11 (with the 9th house flavour).

Let’s move on to another trader-astrologer but don’t be in a hurry to accuse me of favouritism. Yes, he’s another astrologer and that’s why I can find his birth data (and thus, the house cusps) with no problems. As you might have guessed, astrologers tend to take care to note  these kinds of things knowing full well how useful it will be for the generations to come.

Anyhow, I give you Bill Meridian – financial astrologer, designer of astro-market software and author of several books, including “Planetary Stock Trading”. Born 25 April 1949 in Weehawken, NJ, USA (source Astro-Databank). See the chart below.

Jupiter conjunct Part of Fortune in the first house by itself is an indicator of some potential for wealth and financial success in any Natal chart, especially if there are no major afflictions. Then there’s  Pluto on the cusp of the 8th in Leo (largely considered the sign of its exaltation) giving power and access to deep financial currents in the world of investments and dealing with other people’s money.

Let’s quickly go around the chart to confirm the other relevant house connections: (quickly, because I have one more chart to show you guys and I’m sensing you’re getting tired here, as the article stretches on and on)

  1. Ruler of the 2nd and the Part of Fortune is Uranus, at the top of the bisextile from Saturn in the 8th and Mars, the co-ruler of the 11th. Saturn also co-rules the 2nd, so that also counts as the 2-8 connection.
  2. Pluto in the 8th is the ruler of the 11th
  3. The Sun rules the 8th and is conjunct Venus, ruler of the 5th. They both have a trine to Saturn although it is quite wide but we can still count it as an additional factor, extra points to throw on top of other strong placements. 

So, once again – not one or two, but multiple connections here, making the themes of these 4 houses important in the life of an individual as well as strongly connected with the way a person earns money (2nd house).

Finally, I want to present the chart of Martin Frankel. He caught my eye while I was looking for the cases to present in this article not only as a trader with the known birth time but also as a contrast to the men above. Martin is a financial criminal who conducted a series of investment frauds in the late 20th century, causing hundreds of millions of dollars in losses. Interestingly enough, he was also familiar with astrology and used it to make trading decisions among other things. His evidence files contain a horary chart for the question “Will I go to prison?” cast in 1999 five months before he was captured. I wonder if it ever occurred to him to look for the answer in his own Natal chart and transits, but we will not get into this now.

He was born on 21 November 1954 at 20:46 in Toledo, Ohio, USA (birth data from Astro-Databank). See the chart below:

Well, you know the routine now  and if you want to practice – go ahead and find the connections yourself. Don’t cheat and peek into the answers below! I know, the eyes kinda drift to the answers involuntary so I’ll make it harder for you… or easier, if we’re looking at it from the perspective of resisting the temptation to just look at the answers rather than find them yourself.

Let me first point out some placements that steer him into taking the wrong approach in following the right direction. Yes, he has plenty of indicators for making money from the stock market, insurance and so on. The question of honesty and trickery, the temptation to engage in shady activities is connected with several other things in the chart. As always, I urge everyone not to make judgements based on just one placement – it is always seen as a combination of factors and even then, it is just the potential which a person can overcome, if they try hard enough. So if you find a placement similar to your own or someone you know – don’t jump to conclusions about honesty or dishonesty based only on that one factor.

Well, Mercury as the planet of mind and thinking would be one of those factors. His Mercury is tightly conjunct Black Moon Lilith which is something we don’t see in other charts. Additionally, Mercury rules the 12th house of hidden, secret (aka criminal) activity and this is adding weight to the side of the scale that contains negative factors.

Jupiter is another planet that has to do with honesty and morality, with the questions of right and wrong. Retrograde Jupiter in itself is not an indicator if it doesn’t describe our personality in the chart. However, in his case retrograde Jupiter is the planet of the first house (house of self). Exaltation in Cancer just gives an exaggeration to the mode of expression here and the trine to the Sun allows for further ease in embracing whatever Jupiter represents in his chart . Also, trines are prone to taking the path of least resistance. All of this happening alongside the generational Neptune-Uranus square but for Frankel this becomes about personal misguided actions with Natal Moon next to Neptune and the other side of the square in the 1st house so close to the ASC.

Ok, let’s tick the boxes on the thematic (financial) markers:

  1. POF conjunct Pluto in the 2nd
  2. Ruler of the 2nd and of the POF – the Sun – in the 5th
  3. Ruler of the 5th (Pluto) in the 2nd in aspects to the elements of the 8th (Mars) and the 5th (the Sun). Mars co-rules the 5th, the Sun rules the 2nd.
  4. Ruler of the 11th Venus is in the 5th, detriment and fully subdued to that  messy Lilith-flavoured conjunction of Mercury (the 12th house ruler) and Saturn (rules the 7th, co-rules the 8th) leading to being quite successful (in view of other factors in the chart) in cheating (12th) other people (7th) out of their money (8th) on a large scale (11th house as the house of large groups of people).

Alrighty then! As you can see, the connections of houses 2-5-8-11 in the Natal chart can be a strong indicator of being successful in trading, investing and otherwise making a living from managing other people’s money provided it is managing you’re doing not pocketing, cheating and defrauding as out last exhibit.

3 thoughts on “Natural Born Traders or The Not-So-Scary 8th House in Your Chart

  1. Your text is quite interesting, I have jupiter in pisces at 8 in trine for venus in scorpion at 4, also squaring Jupiter in Uranus at 5 and Saturn at 4, so every time I needed to grow up and go to the next level I had to face a crisis. so far I have been victorious, my turn is always fast, like so I face a moment that I see that I am almost losing everything, God comes and brings the resolution the next month. I find it very interesting. I have a north node in house 9 in Aries, maybe that’s why my expansion is conditioned by a crisis. (i have pluto in scorpio 3rd, sun 29 degrees libra, mercury in scorpio too)

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