Alcoholism In The Natal Chart: Astrological Patterns and Placements Indicating the Tendency.

Natal Chart analysis is used to assess a person’s temperament, character, emotional needs and numerous other factors and traits of one’s personality. The following article is going to be the first one in a series where I will take a look at typical patterns and placements for various issues which can be seen in a person’s Birth Chart such as aggression and violence, depression and – the one which is in focus today – alcoholism.

Before we get to the list of typical placements and patterns and the examples which demonstrate them I want to stress that these patterns only indicate a tendency. Many times a person who is just starting to learn astrology is prone to jumping to conclusions based on one or two factors, ignoring the rest of the chart. While the tendency may exist in many charts you come across, it does not necessarily doom a person to becoming an alcoholic sooner or later. At the same time (as we shall see in some examples) a person who does succumb to this predisposition can fight and overcome it and this is shown by the ‘helping’ stronger planets in the chart.

Another thing is that finding just one of several astrological placements I am going to list below will indicate a drinking problem or even just occasional excessive alcohol consumption which are not alcoholism in its strict definition but still can be quite destructive to a person’s social or private life not to mention health. In other words – the more placements are found in the chart, the more evidence there is, so to say, the further up someone is likely to be on the scale from “teetotaler” to “alcoholic”.

Ok, so the factors we are looking for are:

  1. An afflicted Moon or Mars in a Water sign
  2. Mars or the Moon in a harsh aspect (opposition or square) with Neptune or Jupiter.
  3. Connection of the above placements and aspects to the 12th house, as well as the 1st or the 6th.
  4. Accent on the sign of Pisces (ruled by Neptune) in a negative way

I will start with 

Betty Ford 

not only because First Ladies go first. She is a vivid example of both being successful in overcoming addiction as well as the fact that this problem can permeate all levels of society; that being rich and having high social status doesn’t safeguard from having mental or emotional problems. Her example breaks the stereotype of an alcoholic being “that scruffy guy on the street or next to you in line at the store who reeks of cheap booze” . In her own words: “My makeup wasn’t smeared, I wasn’t disheveled, I behaved politely, and I never finished off a bottle, so how could I be alcoholic?”. But she was and in the 1970s she announced her long-running battle with alcoholism and substance abuse, being the first First Lady to do so. In 1982, after her recovery, she established the Betty Ford Center for treatment of people with substance abuse and dependence.

She was born 8 April 1918 at 15:45 in Chicago, IL, USA (source Astro-Databank). See the chart below.

Immediately we see the Mars-Moon opposition with the Moon in Pisces and the aspect is happening in the 1st-7th house. That one placement checks 3 items on our list: 1) afflicted Moon in a Water sign  2) a negative accent on Pisces (opposition)  3) connection with the first house of self, the house of personality and physical body. If we keep looking, we’ll see Jupiter also afflicting the Moon with a square. Jupiter is not strong by sign but is strong by house placement and it does add its negative influence.

By the way, if you are wondering why we are even looking at Jupiter here, since the first and most popular meaning of Jupiter is the “planet of good luck” I will take a minute to explain. The first and primary meaning of Jupiter is actually “a lot”. Simply that. “A lot” is quite neutral on its own and only gets a positive or a negative connotation when combined with other things. “A lot of pleasure” is quite different from “a lot of pain”, right? If we look for some synonyms here we can use “plenty” and “excess” which will clearly demonstrate the difference between a positive influence of Jupiter in the chart (plenty = enough, a lot in a way that is not inconvenient) and negative influence (excess = too much, over the top, so much that it can cause problems). That is why, apart from Neptune which is a natural significator of substances like drugs and alcohol, we look for harsh aspects from Jupiter which in our situation will show excessive drinking.

Let’s get back to Betty and see what her Neptune is doing. It is sitting just a couple degrees away from the 12th house cusp which is only a minor addition to the picture. The much more important thing here is the square that Neptune is giving to Mercury. “Wait, where does Mercury come from? It wasn’t on the list!” – you might say. Mercury here demonstrates the importance of knowing the birth time in Natal astrology. In itself Mercury is not connected to the topic but in Betty’s chart it is the ruler of the 1st house and it gives us yet another negative influence of Neptune on the first house running up the total to 5 strong indications. 

The Moon, being the weakest link here, doesn’t have any harmonious aspect which would serve as constructive solutions to the problem and this is why this chart is a good example on so many levels. We don’t see any harmonious aspect that will show us the solution so how did she manage to not only beat it but also take it to the next level by founding the help center? The answer is: dispositions aka planetary rulerships.

The Moon rules Pluto in Cancer 10th and Pluto is supported by a strong exalted Venus in Pisces in the 6th. This is where the Moon receives its support and with the 6th house having to do with service and Pisces being the sign motivated by compassion and empathy it was only natural that after treating her own addiction she continued by helping others (Venus, Pisces, 6th house) on a large scale, leaving a noticeable sociable impact (Pluto, 10th house).

One more placement that helped her to solve the problem is the Sun in the sign of its exaltation (Aries). The Sun is our will and even with no aspects and in the 8th house it gives a willful and strong personality helping to achieve goals she has set for herself.

While the First Lady’s struggle with substance abuse might be news to some people, the next person’s relationship with drinking as well as driving while doing it is quite notorious. Also, he is a more recent character and should be more familiar to many of the readers. 

Mel Gibson

was born on January 3rd, 1956 at 16:45 in Peekskill, NY, USA. I won’t spend time describing his story of alcohol problems. If it’s the first time you’re hearing about it, his Wikipedia article has a separate section describing it in detail. The chart is given below:

As you can imagine, there was an abundance of candidates for this article. A large number of people meet the requirement of just two things: being known to a fairly large number of people and having alcohol problems. I made my choices based on the Natal charts and their ability to demonstrate the astrological patterns in their variety. Mel is here to contrast Betty’s afflicted Moon in Water sign. Her quiet, passive and hidden (Pisces) affair with the bottle is quite different from his active and aggressive experience indicated by Mars in a Water sign of Scorpio. Even though it is in its own sign and thus quite strong, it doesn’t save it from being afflicted by a conjunction with Saturn and a square from Pluto. Both aspects are quite wide but still within the orb. His Moon is doing just fine but just like with Betty we see a 1st-7th house opposition (remember – planets in the 1st house have a strong connection both with your personality and physical body). The opposition is narrow with two degrees orb and what is more interesting is, again, dispositions and receptions. Uranus in the 1st degree of Leo is in the sign of its detriment as it rules Aquarius. Any planet opposing it from Aquarius will also be ruled by Uranus and this the opposition would be softened as the planet’s ability to damage will be limited by the fact that Uranus is also its ruler, its boss. Mercury, however, the trickster that he is, sits right outside Uranus’ domain in the last degree of Capricorn and answers only to Saturn so he can do all the damage he wants.

Still, if we’re counting the checkmarks on the list of factors given above, the evidence in the chart is quite scarce so far…. Until we find Neptune in the beginning of Scorpio turning a simple opposition into a formidable configuration of T-square which is much more potent and tense. Placed in fixed signs it makes the problem described by the T-square chronic, a lifelong struggle (by his own admission he started drinking at 13 and it remains to be seen if he has beaten it yet by now, at the age of 64). 

Further inspection shows that Mercury here is not so simple and rules the 12th house of self-undoing. So a T-square with Neptune afflicting both the 1st and the 12th houses as well as the 12th house ruler opposing a weak planet in the 1st house. This  piles the evidence high and we move on to the next exhibit, I mean, our next case:

Ben Affleck

I mentioned in one of my previous articles that I harbor a seemingly inexplicable dislike for the guy. I call it “allergy”. I’ve just always had this strange aversion to seeing him on screen in any role no matter how good the acting was (mind you, I don’t deny his acting skills). Seeing his name on the list of famous people struggling with alcohol problems kind of made me soften up a bit and check out the chart to see if he’ll qualify for the article in terms of being a good and clear example from an astrological point of view. Looking at his chart also shed some light at my inherent aversion: while that Venus right on the ASC  might contribute to him being dubbed “Sexiest Man alive” by People magazine way back in the early 00’s, for me personally it is placed in the 12th house and in a square to placements in my chart that describe what I find attractive. BTW, an opposition doesn’t work like that as the opposites often tend to attract but the square definitely does the job and it is useful to remember in synastry analysis.

Anyway, let’s get back to Ben and his Natal Chart. Born August 15th, 1972 at 02:53 in Berkeley, CA, USA (source Astro-Databank). See the chart below.

Afflicted Moon in Water sign – check. Moon is in fall in Scorpio and it has a square from Mercury which rules the 12th house. This very same aspect gives a second check for a negative connection of the 12th house with the 1st house as his Moon rules his ASC.

Another aspect is Mars square Neptune and this one is the reason his chart did eventually get picked for demonstration. You see, it’s easy to sort of blend the first and the second items on the list  of placements I have indicated at the beginning and start looking only for Mars or Moon afflicted by Neptune or Jupiter in Water signs… no, they are two separate criteria:

1) afflicted Moon or Mars in a Water sign (afflicted not just by Neptune or Jupiter)

2) Moon or Mars afflicted by Neptune or Jupiter (in any sign)

So Ben’s Mars in Virgo still qualifies. As I understand from  reading his wiki page the struggle is ongoing with some periods of staying sober and a recent relapse in 2018-2019. What caught my eye though is another section speculating about his involvement in gambling. I have recently written an article on trading which also involves the element of risk and 5th house being a factor in the analysis. If we look at Ben’s chart for possible constructive use of aspects and an outlet for the conflict leading to alcohol abuse, we notice that both the Moon and Neptune are in the 5th house and the Moon has a trine to Venus which rules the 5th house (and also the 2nd house of money). Not enough 8th house involvement shifts the focus from stock trading to pure gambling and positive aspects ensure that this is likely to be lucrative. However, due to accusations of counting cards he was banned from casinos and poker games… and the channel for positive energy output was blocked. I mean, gambling addiction is also an addiction but for him it could have had much less severe consequences because a) there is no damage to health b) he’s got enough money to waste it in a poker game if he wants to c) actually not all of it is waste as his chart clearly suggests gains from gambling.

Ok, we’ll leave Ben alone and move on to one of the saddest stories among the 5 that I have chosen for this blog entry (and I left a happy-end story for the end).

Robin Williams

Who tragically took his own life after battling depression and addiction. In mid-2014, just a few months before the suicide, Williams admitted himself into the Hazelden Foundation Addiction Treatment Center in Minnesota, for treatment for alcoholism.

He was born July 21st, 1951 at 13:34 in Chicago, IL, USA. The chart is given below:

This far into the article you can already give it a try yourself and find all the placements before I list them for you. There are plenty, I mean, this is just too much, really. While the chart has its strengths as well (quite obviously, for a star of his scale) the tragedy depicted by the planets makes my Water-heavy chart reach out in compassion to all the tension and torments going on inside this man’s soul.

Let’s start with Mars: afflicted not once, not twice but 4(!) times by squares from Neptune, Jupiter and also by a conjunction with Uranus (bringing unrest and tension). It is not just in Water but in the sign of its fall in Cancer. So it’s like the other 3 are kicking the one who’s already down. Not fair!

This T-square alone is more than enough to give someone more problems than they can handle but then there’s the touchy and gentle Piscean (Water) Moon in a tight opposition with Venus, the ruler of the 12th house. The only positive connection the Moon has is the trine to Mars. Trines indicate help but what help can be given here, considering Mars’ condition? None. Mars in its turn also only has help (harmonious aspects) from the Moon (which can’t give it) and Venus. Venus is not the strongest one here and can only help so much. It rules the 7th house in addition to the 12th, so help can come from other people (spouse, partners, etc) as well as rehab (12th house as the house of hospitals and institutions) but despite being in a strong house it is weak by placement (in fall in Virgo).

If you keep looking you’ll see the ASC (self) ruler Pluto conjunct the ruler of the 8th (death) while that poor  Mars under such pressure is placed inside the 8th and co-rules the ASC… makes me wanna cry.

Well, let’s hope Robin found peace wherever he is now and let’s do the last piece to cheer up and end on an optimistic note

Drew Barrymore

Born on 22 February 1975 at 11:51 at Culver City, CA, USA. See chart below:

Her story of both childhood fame and childhood addiction is presented by the Sun (ruler of the 3rd house of early childhood environment) place in the 10th house of fame in Pisces (here comes the first checkmark on our list) which adds to the heavy accent on Pisces (4 planets) with Black Moon  Lilith (destabilizing factor) in the mix. The Moon is in Watery Cancer, afflicted by Mars and also Saturn, but Saturn is weak in Cancer and the Moon totally  dominates here. This strong Moon is also the reason she was able to win the battle. Similarly to Betty Ford, who had the strong Sun and Venus in the chart to lean on, Drew’s Moon, while under fire, is still a strong planet and is able to handle the attack. Neptune has only harmonious aspects: it is the apex of a very productive bi-sextile from Mercury (ruler of the ASC) and Pluto, ruler of the 6th house of work. With Neptune itself being in the 6th house work was one of the things that pulled her out.

All right, so there you have it. You can practice on other charts now and see if you can spot both the tendency for the problem and the solution for it (through strong placements and harmonious aspects). However, there is another way this information can be put to use. Analyzing the chart which  already exists only helps you to see if the problem is there or not. One of the advantages of knowing astrology is in using it to prevent possible future problems. With modern medical practice increasingly using induced labor (1 in 5 in the UK and over 25% in the US) picking the date of birth and thus the baby’s Natal chart is something more common than it used to be. And picking the date when the factors described in the article are not present in the planetary picture for the day helps to avoid unpleasant issues the child will be facing in their life.

Natural Born Traders or The Not-So-Scary 8th House in Your Chart

It’s no secret that the 8th house has got a bad rep among the learners and practitioners of astrology. Associated with death and power struggles, crises, fears, deeply hidden issues – you name it. Occasionally you can come across an article trying to lighten the gloomy mood  setting of this area of the natal chart and focusing on the connection with transformation, hidden powers, inner strength and so on. Usually those articles come from the astrologers following the evolutionary approach. Now, there is nothing wrong with that as I myself incorporate this approach… when it is appropriate, i.e. when the client is interested in the spiritual potential of their chart.

However, most of the time people are interested in practical and everyday matters. Like, will they have a relationship with the person of interest or how to earn more money. And here we come to another meaning of the 8th house which is almost everywhere mentioned in passing, tossed in with the other “oh-so-scary” meanings. The meaning is “other people’s money” which comes as a consequence of the ‘turning of the chart’ technique: you are the 1st house and your money is the 2nd house. Other people are the 7th house and the 2nd from the 7th (= the 8th) is their money. Occasionally ‘other people’s money’ is explained as ‘loans and grants’ and then there is always ‘taxes’… None of them seem appealing because one has to be rather perverted to enjoy paying taxes and loans are strongly associated with debt and handing over your hard-earned money to the bank to pay the interest on these loans as well.

One possible positive outcome of the 8th house signifying someone else’s money is when it is taken to signify your spouse’s money and this way a well placed 8th house significators with positive connections to your 2nd house could be an indicator of marrying someone who is well-off. But this is where the common  misconception about another house creeps in: the 7th house is more often than not assigned to “the partner” meaning “romantic partner” or “spouse” (probably because of the high volume of marriage and relationships requests in consultations). However, astrologers who work a lot with business ventures know this house also as the house of business partners, competitors or even open enemies, e.g. in court situations. In horaries, the 7th house is the house of any person who does not fit the categories described by the other people-related houses (3rd – siblings and neighbours, 4th – parents, 5th – children, etc).  

In other words, if you go out into the central square or plaza of your city or town and look around  – provided the lockdown is over – you’ll see a bunch of people who are “other people” and thus are described by the 7th house. If you go online and start interacting with someone you have never met in real life – they are also 7th house, not the 11th house (as you might think because they are labeled as “friends” on FB). If you come to a stock exchange in New York, London or Shanghai – you will see a whole lot of 7th housers shuffling around large chunks of what is definitely described by the 8th house – “other people’s money”.

In business astrology the 8th house is not only loans or debts. It is connected with investments, financial and banking sphere, venture capitals and so on. The 8th house is often prominent in the charts of people who succeed in these areas as you shall see below. I will focus mainly on traders but before we get to the Natal charts, let me outline the factors we need to look at:

  1. The 2nd house – the house of your own money and source of income
  2. The 5th house – the house connected with risk (e.g. gambling, sport betting) because trading, no matter how good your strategy is, still remains in the category of risky ways of making money
  3. The 8th house – the house of other people’s money, the money that other people put into the market
  4. The 11th house – the least important but, nevertheless, relevant being the 5th from the 7th (other people’s risks) as well as the house of larger groups of people (as in “all the people trading on the stock exchange”)
  5. In addition to the houses, there are some planets which are natural significators for the profession: Mercury, of course, as the planet of trade and exchange and also Pluto, as the planet strongly connected with  interest (percentage) and the ability to get profits from cash flow, trade turnover, etc.
  6. Part of Fortune (POF) and its dispositor also presents some interest, although, similarly to the 11th house it’s more of an additional factor rather than the main one.

I will start with the guy whose name is familiar even to those who can’t explain the difference between a share and a bond without googling it. 

Warren Edward Buffett, an investor and business tycoon, born 30th August 1930 at 15:00 in Omaha, Nebraska (birth data from Astro-Databank). See the chart below:

In evaluating the earning potential of the individual, their financial standing in life in general we turn to the 2nd house in Aquarius and its ruler Uranus in Aries near the IC. My personal reaction is just ‘“meh” – I mean, this isn’t the superstar of the chart for sure. Not strong by the sign, retrograde, only harsh aspects… Maybe we’ll have more luck with the vice-ruler of the 2nd house – Saturn? Indeed, here it’s starting to pick up a little. Saturn is strong in its own sign and in the first house and, despite being retrograde and in a T-square with Mars and Mercury, it also has a couple of nice tight trines from the Sun and Neptune in none other than the 8th house! Much better. 

Incidentally, the Sun also rules his 8th house so that’s our first connection of houses 2-8. Now, Neptune closely conjunct Warren’s Sun could be the reason for his great intuition and vision  in making financial decisions but how come this Sun-Neptune conjunction is not about creative imagination and intuition in other spheres of life, say, writing? Or acting? With that Venus and Libra on the MC surely it is one of things that comes to mind as a career possibility.

Well, his POF in Pisces 3rd house is ruled by that very Neptune in the 8th hinting that his fortunes would be made in areas of life that are described by the 8th house. Venus, being one of the strongest planets in the chart and the significator of career and highest achievement (MC), also rules the 5th house which is another tick on our checklist. In addition, Venus has only one aspect – with Pluto (percentage), the ruler of the 11th house (other people’s risk). The 2nd house ruler is also connected with Pluto, ruler of the 11th. We have come full circle. With Mercury highlighted here as the apex of the T-square and thus being the focal point of the energy outpouring we have a great example of how the 8th house is playing out nicely and constructively in this person’s chart.

Let’s look at another trader who’s well known in the financial circles: W. D. Gunn. The opening paragraph of the Wikipedia article describes him as “a finance trader who developed the technical analysis methods like the Gann angles and the Master Charts……forecasting methods are purportedly based on geometry, astronomy and astrology, and ancient mathematics.” Yup, you read it right – astrology.

The father of astro-trading was born June 6, 1878 at 10:34 in Lufkin, Texas (source Astro-Databank). See the chart below.

Ok, so here the eye goes immediately to that Pluto smack at the top of the chart, in a partile conjunction with MC. Strong Pluto – check. It also rules POF – two birds with one stone! Nice.

With Leo ASC he has both 2nd and 11th houses ruled by Mercury which is also not far from Pluto and the MC in the 9th house shifting the focus on the studying, researching and leaving the serious legacy in the form of knowledge, methods and systems. I’ll just take a minute to appreciate Uranus on the ASC and his connection with astrology (as something unconventional). I mean, even the Wiki article has a few paragraphs about his trading techniques with the use of planetary configurations! Yay for astrology!

His 5th house ruler Jupiter is not as pumped – in Aquarius in the 6th and retrograde, but nevertheless connected by an aspect of square to Neptune which rules the 8th. His chart is quite rich on squares, by the way, which shows it must have been a bumpy road to success but any connection is better than no connection at all.

The final touch here would be a sextile (at last – a harmonious aspect!) from Mars in the 11th to Mercury, which is a connection of houses 2-11 (with the 9th house flavour).

Let’s move on to another trader-astrologer but don’t be in a hurry to accuse me of favouritism. Yes, he’s another astrologer and that’s why I can find his birth data (and thus, the house cusps) with no problems. As you might have guessed, astrologers tend to take care to note  these kinds of things knowing full well how useful it will be for the generations to come.

Anyhow, I give you Bill Meridian – financial astrologer, designer of astro-market software and author of several books, including “Planetary Stock Trading”. Born 25 April 1949 in Weehawken, NJ, USA (source Astro-Databank). See the chart below.

Jupiter conjunct Part of Fortune in the first house by itself is an indicator of some potential for wealth and financial success in any Natal chart, especially if there are no major afflictions. Then there’s  Pluto on the cusp of the 8th in Leo (largely considered the sign of its exaltation) giving power and access to deep financial currents in the world of investments and dealing with other people’s money.

Let’s quickly go around the chart to confirm the other relevant house connections: (quickly, because I have one more chart to show you guys and I’m sensing you’re getting tired here, as the article stretches on and on)

  1. Ruler of the 2nd and the Part of Fortune is Uranus, at the top of the bisextile from Saturn in the 8th and Mars, the co-ruler of the 11th. Saturn also co-rules the 2nd, so that also counts as the 2-8 connection.
  2. Pluto in the 8th is the ruler of the 11th
  3. The Sun rules the 8th and is conjunct Venus, ruler of the 5th. They both have a trine to Saturn although it is quite wide but we can still count it as an additional factor, extra points to throw on top of other strong placements. 

So, once again – not one or two, but multiple connections here, making the themes of these 4 houses important in the life of an individual as well as strongly connected with the way a person earns money (2nd house).

Finally, I want to present the chart of Martin Frankel. He caught my eye while I was looking for the cases to present in this article not only as a trader with the known birth time but also as a contrast to the men above. Martin is a financial criminal who conducted a series of investment frauds in the late 20th century, causing hundreds of millions of dollars in losses. Interestingly enough, he was also familiar with astrology and used it to make trading decisions among other things. His evidence files contain a horary chart for the question “Will I go to prison?” cast in 1999 five months before he was captured. I wonder if it ever occurred to him to look for the answer in his own Natal chart and transits, but we will not get into this now.

He was born on 21 November 1954 at 20:46 in Toledo, Ohio, USA (birth data from Astro-Databank). See the chart below:

Well, you know the routine now  and if you want to practice – go ahead and find the connections yourself. Don’t cheat and peek into the answers below! I know, the eyes kinda drift to the answers involuntary so I’ll make it harder for you… or easier, if we’re looking at it from the perspective of resisting the temptation to just look at the answers rather than find them yourself.

Let me first point out some placements that steer him into taking the wrong approach in following the right direction. Yes, he has plenty of indicators for making money from the stock market, insurance and so on. The question of honesty and trickery, the temptation to engage in shady activities is connected with several other things in the chart. As always, I urge everyone not to make judgements based on just one placement – it is always seen as a combination of factors and even then, it is just the potential which a person can overcome, if they try hard enough. So if you find a placement similar to your own or someone you know – don’t jump to conclusions about honesty or dishonesty based only on that one factor.

Well, Mercury as the planet of mind and thinking would be one of those factors. His Mercury is tightly conjunct Black Moon Lilith which is something we don’t see in other charts. Additionally, Mercury rules the 12th house of hidden, secret (aka criminal) activity and this is adding weight to the side of the scale that contains negative factors.

Jupiter is another planet that has to do with honesty and morality, with the questions of right and wrong. Retrograde Jupiter in itself is not an indicator if it doesn’t describe our personality in the chart. However, in his case retrograde Jupiter is the planet of the first house (house of self). Exaltation in Cancer just gives an exaggeration to the mode of expression here and the trine to the Sun allows for further ease in embracing whatever Jupiter represents in his chart . Also, trines are prone to taking the path of least resistance. All of this happening alongside the generational Neptune-Uranus square but for Frankel this becomes about personal misguided actions with Natal Moon next to Neptune and the other side of the square in the 1st house so close to the ASC.

Ok, let’s tick the boxes on the thematic (financial) markers:

  1. POF conjunct Pluto in the 2nd
  2. Ruler of the 2nd and of the POF – the Sun – in the 5th
  3. Ruler of the 5th (Pluto) in the 2nd in aspects to the elements of the 8th (Mars) and the 5th (the Sun). Mars co-rules the 5th, the Sun rules the 2nd.
  4. Ruler of the 11th Venus is in the 5th, detriment and fully subdued to that  messy Lilith-flavoured conjunction of Mercury (the 12th house ruler) and Saturn (rules the 7th, co-rules the 8th) leading to being quite successful (in view of other factors in the chart) in cheating (12th) other people (7th) out of their money (8th) on a large scale (11th house as the house of large groups of people).

Alrighty then! As you can see, the connections of houses 2-5-8-11 in the Natal chart can be a strong indicator of being successful in trading, investing and otherwise making a living from managing other people’s money provided it is managing you’re doing not pocketing, cheating and defrauding as out last exhibit.